The Return of the League of Gentle Men at Nizza

The League of Gentle Men* at Nizza

Since 2011 marks the 150th anniversary of Italian unification, some of our members felt that our tasting should feature Italian wines, but others wanted French. We decided to do both and call it the Italian-French connection. The restaurant we went to was Nizza, which is the Italian name for the city of Nice.  Before 1860, Nice and the surrounding area belonged to the House of Savoy in Piemonte. It was given to France to stop them from interfering in the unification of Italy.

 I have eaten at Nizza a number of times and am always impressed with the food. The shrimp scampi is excellent and the pizza and salads are very good. Two main courses that I really enjoy there are the Porchetta and the Branzino fillet. The restaurant also serves an excellent thin pie made with chickpea flour that really reminds me of Nice. The French call it socca and the Italians call it farinata. 

 With our meal, we enjoyed wines from Provence, the Rhone, Piedmont and Rome.

No matter what the theme, we always start with Champagne, this time it was the Salon Vintage Blanc de Blancs 1997 and it got us off to a great start.

  Chateau D’Arlay 2002 Cotes du Jura made from 100% Pinot Noir from old vines. The wine is matured in oak barrels for three years. This was a light wine and it worked very well as the first red wine.

 Domain Juliette Avril 2000 Chateauneuf-du-Pape 2000 made from Grenache, Syrah and Mourvedre. Grapes are handpicked between Sept 10 and 15, traditional vinification with partial stripping. Temperature controlled fermentation in 100hl stainless steel tanks for at least 12 days. 10% of the harvest is transferred to barrels. This wine needed more time.

 Chateau Vignelaure 1985 Coteaux d’ Aix-en- Provence. It is 60% Cabernet Sauvignon, 25% Grenache and 15% Syrah. Soil composition is limestone, clay and gravel. 1985 was a very good year. Part of the fruit was not destemmed and the wine was aged in French oak, 8,500 liters, and the equivalent of 38 barrels. This was a wine that had matured very nicely, with soft tannins, nice fruit with hints of blackberry and cherry.

 Today the wine is aged in small oak barrels (one third new) 75% French and 25% American oak, for 18 months and two years in bottle before release. I have not tasted recent vintages from this producer so I cannot comment on their new methods.

 Fiorano Rosso 1994 Boncompagni Ludovisi Principe di Venosa Lazio Cabernet Sauvignon and Merlot. The wine is aged for two years in big barrels of Slovenian oak.

This wine is not made any more; the last vintage was the 1995. I have been lucky enough to have had many vintages of this wine going back to 1961 and I had a 1967 last year. The wine never disappoints and I have never had a bad bottle. The wine can age so I opened the bottle about one hour before I was to leave for the dinner. When I arrived at Nizza the wine was decanted and it was another hour before we were ready to drink it. The combination of leather, cherry and a touch of tobacco makes it unlike any wine I have ever tasted except maybe a very traditional old Bordeaux. The wine was just opening up after about an hour in the glass.

  Hermitage “La Chapelle” 1986 Paul Jaboulet Anie Rhone  100% Syrah The grapes are not from a single vineyard but are blended from the divers terroir of Les Bessards, Les Greffeux, Le Meal and Les Rocoules. The grapes are handpicked and each parcel is vinified separately. It is aged between 15 and 18 months in the cellar. The different parcels are blended and it receives additional time in barrel and bottle before release. It was drinking very well, not showing any age with hints of black fruit, red currants, spice and a touch of leather.

 1989 Mas des Daumas Gassac 1989 Languedoc made from 70% Cabernet Sauvignon and 30% Malbec, Merlot, Syrah Cabernet Franc, Pinot and Tanit. This is a big dark wine with dark fruit aromas and flavors and a hint of spice and leather.

 1978 Bricco Bussia Aldo Conterno 100% Nebbiolo sub-varieties Michet and Lampia.This is a great, classic Barolo with hints of faded roses, leather, tar and tea.

 *The League of Gentle Men is a group of gentlemen who meet once a month or so to drink great wine, eat good food, and enjoy each other’s company.

Alto Adige: Why is it also called the Sudtirol?

 The Alto Adige

Urs Vetter of the Alois Lageder winery

Driving north passed the city of Bolzano, the countryside started to look more German than Italian.  Road signs were in two different languages: German and Italian. When we reached the Alois Lageder winery, we were greeted by Urs Vetter the export manager who gave us a tour of the winery and a wine tasting.  When it was time for lunch, he said that he knew an excellent restaurant not far away. He called the restaurant and spoke in German. When he looked up and saw the surprised look on our faces he simply said that in the Alto Adige, German is the first language.

 Located at the foot of the Alps and the Dolomites, the region borders on Austria and Switzerland. The Alps protect it from inclement weather from the North and the Atlantic, while the Dolomites protect the vineyards from the cold, damaging winds from the east.  Along with its proximity to the Mediterranean and Lake Garda, this makes it an excellent region to grow grapes. It is interesting to note that in the summer, the temperature in Bolzano is higher than in Palermo in Sicily. The people that live here call their region the Sud Tirol and themselves Tyroleans.   The food is decidedly Austrian with only a hint of Italy.  Ham is called Speck and they have a cheese called Weinkase Lagrein and bread called Schuttelbrot. 

  Recently in NYC I was invited to attend a seminar followed by a tasting of the wines of the Alto Adige moderated by Mary Ewing Mulligan, MW (the first American Woman Master of Wine).  The seminar was entitled “Distinctive White Wines of the Alto Adige” and included eight wines in the tasting.

Mary began with a few remarks regarding the enormous range in vineyard altitude and temperature between the southern and northern areas of the Alto Adige which results in a huge diversity of microclimates. She also went on to say that the most important grapes from the area for the American market were: Pinot Bianco, Pinot Grigio, Gewurztraminer, Pinot Noir and Lagrein.

The Wines

Pinot Grigio “Punggi” (single vineyard) 2007 DOC Alto Adige Nals Margreid 100% Pinot Grigio. The vinification of the grapes and the wine’s storage are carried out half in large oak barrels and half in stainless steel. The speaker for this wine was Klaus Gasser, sales director of the Cantina Terlano cooperative.  He said that Pinot Grigio grows better in the southern half of the Alto Adige where there is less elevation and higher temperatures. It is also grown in the north but as he put it “in the south it is the right grape in the right place”. He described the wine as balanced, fresh with crisp acidity, minerality and nice fruit. Mary asked him how long the wine would age, he said this was not his wine but he knew it well and his answer was 10 years. Klaus also said that to make a great wine the vines must be at least 15 years old. He also added that while they still were training the vines using the Pergola Trellis, most were switching over to Guyot.  $24

Manna 2004 IGT Dolomiti Franz Hazz made from Chardonnay, Sauvignon Blanc, Reisling and Traminer Aromatico.  Because of the different maturing times, the grapes are harvested and worked separately. The Chardonnay and Sauvignon Blanc are fermented in barriques, the Reisling and Traminer Aromatico in stainless steel. The wine does not go through malolatic fermentation.  The Traminer Aromatico is late harvest and there is only a small percentage of Sauvignon Blanc .The wines are then blended together and rest on the lees for 10 months and remain in the bottle a few months before release. The speaker for this wine was Tobias Zingerle.

He is the General Manager of the Kaltern-Caldaro cooperative. Mr. Zingerle said that it was interesting to note that the four vineyards are in the municipalities of Montagna, Egna and Aldino, all very close to each other. The altitude is between 350/800 meters. The sites however are very different from each other, are of Dolomite origin, prophyric, sandy and marly, with a south-west exposure. This was not Mr. Zingerle’s wine but the winemaker told him that he blended these grapes together so that this wine would go with all types of food. The wine was big and complex with hints of spice, honey and a surprising fresh fruit finish and after taste. However it lacked acidity which I believe is necessary to make it a good food wine. $40

 Pinot Grigio “Sanc Valentin” 2006 DOC Alto Adige San Michele Appiano 100% Pinot Grigio. This winey is also a cooperative. The grapes come from selected vineyards in the Appiano Monte at an altitude of 450 meters and the wines are 25/40 years old. 40% of the wine is fermented in new barriques and 60% in used ones, where the wine stays on the yeast for 11 months. The speaker for this wine was Wolfgang Klotz. Mr. Klotz is the marketing and sales director. He said that 2006 was the driest vintage in the last ten years and that the berries were very small and concentrated. The wine had a very distinctive aroma that I could not quite place. On the palate it was very mineral. Over all it had more oak and vanilla then I expect from this producer.

 Sudtiroler Sauvignon Castel Giovanelli 2007 DOC Alto Adige Caldaro 100% Sauvignon Blanc. Castel Giovanelli is 2.5 hectares of vineyards which are bio-dynamically cultivated. There is extreme prolonged pressing of the grapes in their entirety, spontaneous fermentation of the unfiltered juice in 500 liter oak casks. The wine is aged in wood for 12 months, then a light filteration and bottled in August 2008. The speaker for the wine was Tobias Zingerle. He said that the vineyard was an east facing slope of 500 mt above sea level. The soil is loamy, chalky gravel with porphyry and weathered granite, providing a prominent mineral character to the site. This was the most vegetative of the wines with a lot of citrus fruit which I found to be a strange combination. Mr. Zingerle found it less vegetative. Mary commented that this was more of a winemakers wine than a natural fresh wine but did not find it “over worked.”  I did.

 Nova Domus 2005 Riserva DOC Alto Adige Terlaner The wine is made from 60% Pinot Bianco  30% Chardonnay and 10% Sauvignon Blanc. Fermentation: 50% in large oak casks and 50% in Tonneaux (500 liters). Maturation and aging for 12 months on fine yeast in large oak barrels. This was said to be in keeping with tradition. The assemblage took place in March 2007 and bottled in August 2007.  The panel member speaking was Klaus Gasser. The producer feels that the wine can age and the 2005 is the current release in magnums. He said that the 2007 would be available in 750’s and went on to say that 2005 was a warmer vintage while 2007 was cooler and made a more elegant wine. Even thou there is only 10% of Sauvignon Blanc in the blend it was the dominant aroma and taste along with a mineral character in the mouth. It is an interesting wine. $N/A

 Chardonnay Lowengang 2002 DOC Alto Adige Alois Lageder 100% Chardonnay The  grapes come from selected vineyard sites in the Magre and Salorno area. Using natural yeasts, the wine is aged for 11 months on the lees in barriques made of Alliers, Nevers, Troncais, and Vosges of which one half are new. The vines are between 45/60 years old and are at an altitude of 260/450 meters. The soil is sandy and gravelly with high limestone content. It is a warm mesoclimate with vast contrasts between warm days and cool nights. The harvest was the 19/20 of September. This was the oldest wine that we tasted. The speaker was Urs Vetter, our old friend now the VP for the Alois Lageder winery and their director of sales and marketing. He said that all their wines go through malolatic fermentation. Urs also said 2002 was a very good year for Chardonnay and the secret to making great Chardonnay was the age of the vineyard. The wine was an interesting combination of citrus fruit, vanilla and oak.  In the mouth the sensation was very strange; the oak, vanilla and citrus were all there but you tasted them separately! The current release is the 2006. $N/A

 Gewurztraminer Reserve 2006 DOC Alto Adige Peter Zemmer 100% Gewurztraminer.   The vines are grafted on slow-growing rootstock and trained on traditional trellises (Guyot), the grapes are grown in the best vineyard zones in the valley floor around the center of Cortina. Before the grapes are pressed 6/8 hour long cold maceration takes place. The grapes are gently pressed and the stems are removed in the pneumatic tank press. The wine is clarified through the natural setting of sediments. The alcoholic fermentation is carried out with pure strains of yeast at a controlled temperature. The speaker for this wine was Urs and he said the Gewürztraminer was the most typical white wine of the Alto Adige. $ N/A

  Nussbaumer Gewurztraminer 2004 DOC Alto Adige Cantina Tramin. 100% Gewurztraminer The speaker was Wolfgang Klotz from the Tramin winery and Urs introduced him as a Gewurztraminer expert.   He said that Gewurz means spice in German and Tramin being a village in the South of Alto Adige where the grape originated. Others believe that it is Germanic in origin. The Nussbauner estate is located in Sella, a small village above Tramin. The vineyards are between 350/550 meters on the slopes below the Roen mountains. Dry winds blow from Lake Garda during the entire growing season. The soil is clay and gravel with a limestone layer from 20-100cm and porphyry subsoil. The grapes were harvested in small bins, gently crushed and left to macerate with their juices for a brief period.  Mr. Klotz said this was done to capture the characteristic aromatics of the grape. After pressing the grapes are fermented at a controlled temperature in stainless steel tanks. This wine was balanced, complex elegant and subtle all at the same time. It was one of the best examples of Gewürztraminer that I have ever tasted. $40

 Mary said that the cooperatives in the region were quality-focused and overall the region has the best cooperatives in Italy. A typical cooperative will have several hundred members cultivating a plot that is on average less than 2.5 acres. Fifteen cooperatives produce almost 70% of the regions wine. The remaining 30% is produced by wine estates and independent winegrowers.

There was a brief discussion on how well the white wines of the Alto Adige age. Mary said that she was surprised that the panel members did not chose a Pinot Bianco as part of the seminar. She agreed that the white wines do age but believed that the Pinot Bianco aged the best. She went on the give examples of Pinot Biancos that she had in the past that were 20 and 30 years old and in great condition.  This was why she believed that the best place to grow Pinot Bianco was in the Alto Adige.

Ms. Walch of the Elena Walch winery

 In the walk around tasting here are some of the wines which I found interesting and show the great variety of wines produced in the Alto Adige:Abbazia di Novacella – Kerner 2009, Cantina Bolanzo- Santa Magdalena Pinot Grigio 2010, Franz Hass Moscato Rosso 2009, Alois Lageder Muller Thurgau 2010, St Michele Appiano Sauvignon Sanct Valentine 2009, Elena Walch Beyond the Clouds 2008 and Schiava 2009, Peter Zimmer Lagrein 2009 , Manincor Moscato Giallo 2009  Tiefenbrunner Pinot Nero Turmhof 2009 and the Pinot Bianco 2009 and the Nussbaumer Gewurztraminer  2009 from Tramin.

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Neapolitan Pizza and BYOB

 

A Mano, a pizzeria/restaurant in Ridgwood, New Jersey announced that they would be hosting a pizza making demonstration with two of Naples’ greatest pizzaioli, Antonio Starita of Starita a Materdei in Naples, and Roberto Caporuscio of Keste in NYC. Roberto is from the Naples area and trained with Antonio in Naples.  This was a demo I did not want to miss, so along with several friends, we reserved right away. On the day of the demo, over 150 people gathered at the restaurant.  We found our friends, took our seats, and had just enough time for a glass of wine before the demo began. Both Roberto and Antonio were assisted by Adolfo Marletta of La Spaghetta in Naples.

Roberto Caporuscio of Keste needing the dough

 Roberto began by explaining how he makes his dough.  He said that the flour he prefers is a high quality one manufactured by Caputo in Naples.  He uses only their “double zero” flour, which has less gluten in it so that it is easier to stretch.  He uses a special type of mixer that kneads the dough gently.  He demonstrated how to knead the dough by hand.  Then he shaped it into little balls weighing about nine ounces for each pizza. He did this by holding it with one hand and with the other shaping it the same way one would when making mozzarella. 

Antonio Strarita putting the finishing touches on the pizza

Antonio and Roberto mentioned that they had just returned from the Pizza Fair in Las Vegas. Someone in the audience asked who had won the pizza tossing event.  Both men looked puzzled.  Roberto said that they don’t toss the pizza in the air in Naples, while Antonio shook his head and with his hand made a slight back and forth movement saying very softly, mai (never).  They explained that rough handling ruins the dough. 

Margarita

 

Antonio then demonstrated how to shape the dough into a flat disk. He took a ball of dough and gently stretched it in four easy motions, rotating it and folding the edge toward the middle. Next he added pureed Italian canned tomatoes, mozzarella, and a touch of olive oil.  After it was placed on the peel, he stretched the disk out so that it almost doubled in size. He quickly slid the pizza into the wood burning oven and about a minute or so later it was done. The result was perfect Neapolitan style Margarita pizza. Margarita is the queen of pizza, there is no king.

The " Lemon Pizza"

 

I asked Antonio if he would make us his famous “lemon pizza”. This pizza is topped with smoked provola (smoked bufala mozzarella) and thin slices of lemon. I had tasted this pizza once before, when Antonio had been at Keste. It was so good that I had to have it again. He was only too happy to do it. It was as good as I remembered it and went very well with the wine we were drinking.

I then asked him to make another pizza of his choice. He made one of the best marinara pizzas that I have ever had. Roberto told us later that Antonio’s secret is to add a touch of pecorino cheese and a little oregano.

Calzone

 We also enjoyed the little fried calzone filled with ricotta.

 The wines

Most townships in NJ do not allow wine, beer or liquor to be sold in restaurants so we took advantage and brought the following wines.

 Barolo Riserva 1999 100% Nebbiolo Monchiero. This wine was ready to drink. I believe the 1999 was a vintage that can be drunk after 10 years. It had all the Nebbiolo characteristics and went very well with the food as did all the wine.

 Vino Spanna Cantina Castello di Montalbano 1964 Vallana. 1964 was a great vintage in Piemonte. On many of the older bottles of Vallana they have Castello this or that, but the Castellos never existed and with the DOC are no longer on the label. Spanna is the local name for Nebbiolo in this area of Novara in Piemonte. This wine is Nebbiolo with the possible addition of Aglianico! In Italy’s Noble Red Wines, Sheldon Wasserman states that  “Vallana is a master blender…Rumor has it that he used to blend Aglianico from Basilicata into his wines to give them the body and strength that they needed to age and develop.” Wasserman felt that when they stopped doing this, the wines were not as good. Today the wine must be at least 85% Spanna with the possible addition of Vespolina and Bonarda. I am happy to report that I have tasted more recent vintages of the Vallana wines and they have almost come all the way back even without the Aglianico. Tom Maresca gives a full report on the Vallana wines: Vallana: An Old Favorite Returns

 Barbaresco 1967 Produttori del Barbaresco 100% Nebbiolo. This is one of the oldest co-ops in Italy and possible the best. This is also the oldest bottle I have tasted which was not a single vineyard. The label was not the same as the one they use today. This was everything that an old Barbaresco should be and more.

 Barolo Riserva 1967 Borgogno.  This is a great wine. I have had many older bottles of Borgogno Barolo and they age very well. All those aromas that I love in old Barolo were there-faded roses, tar, tea, leather and mushroom.

  Burgundy 2001 Hospices de Nuits Laboure-Roi 100% Pinot Noir. This was the last wine and it did not disappoint as we sat sipping it and talking about the great pizza, great pizza makers (i pizzaioli) and Naples.

 It was a great evening at A Mano and I wanted to start making plans to go back to Naples and visit Starita a Materdei. In the meantime, since I live in NYC I will go to Keste when I want great pizza.

Join Roberto, Michele and me for a pizza tour of Italy www.loveofpizzatour.com

Remembering Alfredo Currado: A Man and his Wines

How do you pay tribute to a great winemaker and special person? The answer is: by drinking his wine and talking about the times we spent with him. We decided to have a dinner and invite our friends who were close to Alfredo Currado of the Vietti winery.  We asked each of the guests to bring at least one bottle of Vietti wine made by Alfredo.

Alfredo and Luciana with family and friends

We first met Alfredo in the fall of 1982. It was my first time in Piedmont and my only itinerary was to visit as many wine producers as possible. We were on our way to Monforte d’Alba when Michele saw the sign for Castiglione Falletto and the Vietti winery. Before we left NYC, Sheldon Wasserman, one of the greatest Italian wine writers, told us to visit this winery not only because they made great wines, but because Alfredo and Luciana Currado were such nice people.(it is impossible to think of Alfredo without also thinking about his wife Luciana, they were a team and to us it was always Alfredo and Luciana) .  We arrived at the gate of the winery and I rang the bell. A man appeared and I said in Italian, siamo amici di Sheldon and Pauline Wasserman. He turned and shouted to his wife: “Luciana, Luciana, friends of Sheldon and Pauline are here!”

 They invited us into their home to meet the whole family and we drank Moscato d’Asti with corn meal cookies and had a wonderful time. When we got back to the hotel there was a message waiting for us from Alfredo and Luciana.  They were taking us to dinner that night and they would not take no for an answer. So began a wonderful friendship and many adventures both in Piedmont and NYC with this wonderful couple that lasted until Alfredo’s death last year.

One of my favorite memories is from 1985 when Michele and I visited Alfredo and Luciana with Mary Ewing Mulligan, MW and Ed McCarthy. A man from Naples had opened a pizzeria a few doors down from their winery and they wanted us to try it. The whole family joined us and the pizza was very good especially the one made with fontina cheese and porcini mushrooms. Alfredo brought a magnum of 1961 Barolo to drink with the pizza. He very proudly told us that this was the first wine that he had made. The wine was great with the pizza.  From then on, I was hooked on pizza and Barolo.

On another of our visits, Michele and I rented a very small Japanese car. When we arrived at the winery, the whole family, especially their grandson, began to make jokes and laugh at the car. Someone said it was so small that a three liter bottle of Alfredo’s wine could not fit in the driver’s seat. A few days later when we were leaving, I opened the door to the car and behind the steering wheel was a three liter bottle of Vietti Barolo as a parting gift.

In 2003 Michele was doing a story for a magazine on where the winemakers eat in the Langhe and we again visited Alfredo and Luciana. Alfredo asked if we would like to visit Bartolo Mascarello and I said “perche no”. Listening to these two great winemakers talk about wine and the state of winemaking in the Langhe was fantastic. I only wish I had a recorder or a video camera with me. Bartolo kept joking and teasing Alfredo, saying, if I understood correctly, that because Alfredo produced many different wines he was making “industrial wines”. They both laughed and then started to speak in the Piedmontese dialect and I could not follow the conversation.

Two years ago I was in Alba for a wine tasting and Alfredo and Luciana invited me for dinner. Luciana apologized for not being able to make dinner because the winery was under construction. It was too bad because she is an excellent cook. We went to a restaurant just a few doors away. The food was very good, typical of the region, and Alfredo brought wine. We drank a 1998 Barolo Rocche which was wonderful.  Alfredo said this was the last vintage that he made before Luca, their son, took over as the winemaker. I am one of the few people to have had the honor of having this great winemaker’s first and last wines, and the privilege of drinking a lot of his bottles in between.

The starter wines for the Alfredo Currado dinner:

Nino Franco 2009 Brut “Grave di Stecca” of Primo Franco

Dom Ruinart 1993 “Blanc de Blancs”

Krug Grande Cuvee Brut NV

The Vietti wines:

We started with the 2008 Barbera D’Alba “Tre Vigne” my favorite of their Barberas made by Alfredo and Luciana’s son Luca. The grapes come from three different vineyards located in Monforte, Castiglione Falletto, and Castiglione Tinella. The vines are 35 years old and there are 5,000 per hectare. After pressing, the wine is kept in stainless steel tanks for 10 days for the alcoholic fermentation.  Malolatic fermentation and aging takes place in casks. Aging is for 10 months in a combination of barriques, Slovenian oak casks and stainless steel. The wine is not filtered before bottling. There were aromas and flavors of red cherry, violets and good acidity. It was a perfect segue to the bigger red wines that followed.

Wines made by Alfredo:

Barbaresco 1985 “Masseria” Made from 100% Lampia. Malolatic fermentation takes place in oak barrels. The wine was aged for two years in Slovenian oak barrels and is bottled unfiltered.  The wine was drinking very well with hints of tobacco and cherry.

Barolo 1988 Riserva “Villero” Nebbiolo –sub varietal Michet. Soil, clay with white and blue marl and the harvest takes place in the middle of October. Fermentation in stainless steel vats with automatic replacement. Malolatic fermentation takes place in oak barrels where the wine remained for six months. The wine is then racked and assembled in 30hl oak barrels for 31 months. After two months in stainless steel the wine is bottled without fining or filtration. This wine was showing its age and there was a lot of sediment. It had a mineral character with a slight celery taste and a touch of fruit.

 Barolo 1985 Riserva “Villero” was drinking very well and is a classic Barolo.

 Barolo 1997 “Rocche” Made from Nebbiolo – 75% Michet, 20% Lampia and 10% Rose.

There are 4,600 plants per hectare. The wine is fermented for 22 days in stainless steel tanks with daily pumping air through the application of an old system called “cap submerged”. It is aged for over two years in Slavonian oak barrels, is unfiltered and is aged one year in bottle before release. My favorite Barolo has always been the “Rocche”. This is traditional classic Barolo with hints of violets, faded roses and leather.

Barolo 1988 Rocche this also was showing very well.

Barolo 1982 Rocche — In my opinion this was the wine of the evening. I always believed that Rocche was the best Barolo that Alfredo made.

It was a wonderful evening of food and wine and memories shared with good friends. Maybe we will do it again next year when the 3L bottle of Barolo that Alfredo gave me  will be 30 years old.